Value is a word. And a word can mean different things to people. And if we have different meanings attributed to one word, it’s impossible for us to get into an agreement when we’re using that word.
may napagnilayan pala ako sa nature ng value vs value judgment.
may mga bagay sa buhay na regardless of how we value it, they remain as value (not just valuable, as it is hiw we perceive it)
like breath. whether we value it or not, it remains a value. mahirap mabuhay nang walang hininga.
or light
or water
or earth
or sun
well sanga-sanga na silang lahat haha.
parang ung sinabi ni Richard Bach sa children’s book niya:
Not being known does not stop the truth for being true.
same thing sa koan na:
if the tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make it sound.
First of all, I’m happy that we’re having this exchange haha. Conversation sa chat is something different rin kaya salamat at sinimulan mo.
Masaya ako na pag-uusapan natin ito sa totoo lang. haha. dahil isa ’to sa matagal ko ring pinagnilayan lalo na simula last year. Tapos alam mo, even if mas madalas nating mapag-usapan yung mga topics surrounding the question ”how we should act?” o “how we should live?”, madalas ko ring mapansin na shini-share mo rin sakin yung mga pananaw mo about “what exists”.
At itong topic na to about value, or at least how you raised it here, this is really about the nature of the existence of “value”.
Ok. Foreword ko yan. Heto, sisimulan ko na haha.
When I think about what exists, I see two mutually exclusive things:
- Things that owe their existence to the mind
- Things that do not owe their existence to the mind
The mind-dependent existents exist INSIDE the mind.
The mind-independent existents exist OUTSIDE the mind.
What is OUTSIDE the mind is EXTERNAL PHYSICAL REALM.
Harry potter exists. But not in the physical world. He owes his existence in J.K. Rowling’s imagination.
On the other hand, “air” exists in the physical world, independent of anyone’s imagination.
We can measure “air” (or strictly speaking, the atoms that make up air), quantify it, study it, pinpoint where its exact geographical position is.
This is because it is the nature of PHYSICAL things to be this way. They are OBJECTIVE and MEASURABLE.
On the other hand, I cannot pinpoint where exactly “Harry Potter” is in the PHYSICAL UNIVERSE. And the reason is simple: the natural rules that govern its existence is just different.
Mental existents are not physical existents.
A is A.
B is B.
A is not B.
B is not A.
Now ang tanong: Is this thing we call “value” PHYSICAL or MENTAL?
Remember, it cannot be both.
The way I understand it, “values” are just “preferences”. When we say we value time over money what we are actually saying is we prefer time over money.
Now, there is no “preference” if there is no “preference-r”. There is no “value” if there is no “value-er”.
This is the nature of MENTAL things. They need a mind to exist. Or, you can say, they exist in the mind. They cannot exist elsewhere.
If values exists in the physical world, we should be able to measure it, quantify it, and pinpoint its exact geometrical position.
But we can’t do that. Because values or preferences swim in an entirely different realm: the MENTAL realm.
You are correct, there are things that are necessary for life, so necessary that it seems like value emanates from them. Air is so necessary for life. But that sense of necessity, that still emanates from the mind. Because it’s mental, it’s not physical. There are people who don’t feel that necessity - and that is why there are suicidal people haha. There is no other way for it to exist but in the mind, where mental constructions exist.
The Pareto here - the key point here - is whether or not you accept what I see as an obvious difference between the PHYSICAL and the MENTAL. I agree that they are so tightly-related and they interact so strongly that is as if they are one and the same (mind-body problem). But strong interaction does not necessarily mean that they are identical. To say that they are identical is a contradiction of “what is”.
Value is a word. And a word can mean different things to people. And if we have different meanings attributed to one word, it’s impossible for us to get into an agreement when we’re using that word.
So in order for us to get into an accurate understanding of the world, let’s go beyond the word. Let’s talk concepts, the mental images behind words.
So what’s the concept behind how I attribute the word “value”?
Heto:
When I think about what exists, I see two mutually exclusive things: (1) things that owe their existence to the mind (mental things) and (2) things that do not owe their existence to the mind (physical things).
Harry potter exists. But not in the physical world. He owes his existence in J.K. Rowling’s imagination.
On the other hand, Rem Tanuan (and his orchids) exists in the physical world, independent of anyone’s imagination.
Now, here is one thing that exists in the mind (and cannot exist in the physical world):
Preferences
A stone, since it does not have a mind cannot have preferences.
Wind, water - preferences cannot exist in them because they exist in an entirely different realm, the physical realm.
Preferences require a human being’s mind to exist.
And values are actually just preferences. When we say we value time over money what we are actually saying is we prefer time over money. There’s not much difference really. And even if there is a subtle difference, the point is: values or preferences exist in the mind. They cannot exist elsewhere.
This is very, very in-line with Buddhist thought. But not many Buddhists realize this.
You are correct, there are things that are necessary for life, so necessary that it seems like value emanates from them. Air is necessary for life. But that sense of necessity, that still emanates from the mind. Because it’s mental, it’s not physical. There is no other way for it to exist but in the mind, where mental constructions exist.
If value exists in the physical world, we should be able to measure it, quantify it, find its exact geometrical position.
But we can’t do that. Because value or preferences swim in an entirely different realm.